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Post by valorius on Apr 19, 2021 2:35:29 GMT
I just flew a few turns. Again, there does not seem to be any way for the fighters to even get over there. No staging airfields from Malta to Syria. Another puzzler....the German AD Cruisers are Light Capital Ships. But the units on the purchase screen have an '8' naval attack. Value used against subs. The ships deployed AD Cruisers have 15 Naval Attack. You don't have a turn 10 to send me do you ? *I responded to your first post on the previous page of this thread* I created the AD cruisers to simulate a number of different warships because of limited AF equipment slots in the eqp file (I made them AF because I wanted all major nations to have them available for game balance) The AD cruiser basically gives you the air defense capability of something like an Atlanta class light cruiser, but the ASW capability of a typical destroyer- this reduces the number of units you have to deploy (meaning less memory/CPU usage- keeping in mind im having memory leak issues) and reduces the amount of clicking you have to do on moving units around in the process, which saves a ton of time. It also simulates the combined arms nature of naval task forces. 15 naval attack is the standard attack rating for any vessel or aircraft equipped with torpedoes in my eqp file. I've also increased the defensive ratings of multiple types of naval vessels so it all balances out in the end. Similar to what i've done making AA units available as ground transports. (be sure to use them when moving around your forces if youre facing air attacks- the fighters in my eqp file are far more dangerous than the stock e file, especially as the war progresses) The AD cruiser is called a cruiser, but it's actually classified as a light capital ship (aka a destroyer), so it can also attack submarines. Many light cruiser types in WWII had the ability to target subs. (not to mention the fact that many subs actually attacked on the surface in WWII). I sent you a much earlier game file last week, if you recall. That was like turn 20 or so. if you don't still have it let me know, i'll see what I have to send. I have made dozens of adjustments, corrections and additions to the efile since the one I sent you. So if you'd like i can send you that as well. Just let me know.
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Post by teophrastusbombastus on Apr 19, 2021 8:59:15 GMT
I do not think I have ever seen fighters over in the Mid-East before that. My observations - over years, so talking mainly about v758 - are that in some matches I've seen them in that region. Always small numbers air forces that I initially encounter in the western Egyptian border and keep withdrawing as I advance on land with Italian units. Usually I can only manage to extinguish those when I ran over the last airfield in the whole region. A big wing there? Never seen! My guess... Consequences of playing without home nation placement. Maybe also from using a highly altered e-file. One cannot play in radically different conditions and expect the exact same results others see. I'm actually surprised that the differences reported aren't bigger.
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Post by valorius on Apr 19, 2021 16:11:23 GMT
Absolutely massive and irrelevant African/ME AI air forces is the norm if you have home hex deployment turned off.
I just don't have the patience, especially as the US, to do all that naval transport movement. It's too tedious, and afterall the whole idea is to have fun.
I see no reason at all why the efile would have anything to do with it, quite honestly. But you could easily test that by running a AI game with home hex deployment turned off and see if they do the same thing, since youre running the stock efiles.
Let us know what happens.
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Post by jeff on Apr 19, 2021 20:18:08 GMT
Ach So, I see how they are there now. OK, The AI is not exactly broken... I just have not written the AI under the optional rules you are using ! That is a problem. There are many, many AI branches, and options to accommodate the different Game options. New unit placement rules require at least two different sets of code. Home Nation, or Any controlled. There is even a different section depending on whether or not the Factory option is used. (Not recommended...still in developement.)
Placing new units on the map is one of the biggest parts of the AI. What to buy, Air, Naval, art, guards. I think the AI always plays LIKE you are using the partisan rule. (That's why it tries to guard all the conquered hexes.) I am not sure I have considered the place new units in any controlled city for the AI in regards to guarding conquered hexes.
I use the Training Time option too. Which means the AI places new air units as far away from the front as possible. (In your case this turned out to be Syria !) Ha ! Whoops.
The Naval transport option...stay on map, or standard game Naval Transport required two very distinct AI sections of code.
In many ways I made the AI programming much harder, but putting all the optional rules into the game. Plus there are at lease 3 types...soon 4 I think of actual scenarios. The old standard small map, the normal Big Map Europe, Pacific, the world map. (The world map is still sort of hanging out there...waiting to the map to be developed better. I am actually working on that every once in a while.) (The fourth is a new 'scripted' game. The players progress will be compared to actual historical progress for that nation.) Success or defeat will pretty much depend on how much better, or worse the player does that the historical nation.)
I have another version of the game where the human starts out controlling just 5 units. (Army, Naval, Air choice at start.) The game will assign different objectives. If the player succeeds he gets promoted. Div, Corps, Army, Army Group, etc. With more forces under his control at each rank.
Mainly I mention these to demonstrate how much time I wasted on variants. Many of which lead nowhere. But, maybe someday, I'll get them finished.
I am glad you sent me the save file. I will play a couple of games using your set of optional rules, and try to make some AI modifications to account for them.
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Post by valorius on Apr 19, 2021 21:51:55 GMT
Outstanding glad you were able to track down the issue Jeff!
If you dont mind, Wait until i send you the latest version of my custom eqp file, ive made dozens of changes/additions/adjustments in the latest version. I'll get it to you tomorrow.
I'll have the US, Germany (mostly, Germany has so many units it takes a ton of work), Italy and the secondary nations well hammered out by then.
Still have to tackle the Russian bear. So far i've only adjusted and modded the stats for the russian units that i actually use when i play them myself.
Tips for playing my version:
*Stick to the road networks and use rail transported 3 range heavy AD guns to cover your progress as you advance. Use 2 or more units to provide overlapping supporting fire.
*Artillery is the king of the battlefield in my version. Period. SP guns advancing in a supporting group of 3 can be almost impossible to stop- even when the AI does it- so watch out for this. 4 range 8" guns are available for all sides. They are extremely powerful but have 0 movement. Later war 155mm, Soviet 122mm, and german 170mm guns have 4 range but can also move without mounting, making them more flexible.
*I have put huge emphasis on recon units in my version. It is a trusim of modern war that whatever side wins the recon game wins the battle. Use lots of recon units to maximize the effectiveness of your 4 range arty pieces, and super mobile recon units to encircle and cut off enemy rail lines and reinforcements.
Also, because of Jeff's R&D system, recon units can become as powerful as tanks in their own right. All the more so because i have reclassified several types of tanks that were used in a cavalry role as recon units (FR S35, German PzII, US M2/M3/M5 Stuart, ST BT7, UK Cruisers, etc). There is really no need to even bother with tanks until 2 heavy 2 range tanks become available.
*Some tanks that 'almost' happened in real life are included in my eqp file, such as the early war 5cm PzIV as example, are included.
*For soft mobile combat units, use the best AA transports available. When moving them, be sure to embark them in their transports- even if using rail movement. Ground AA transports do not provide mutual air defense, but the AD rating does give each individual unit the full protection the stat indicates.
*If you leave your units hanging out to dry vs the mid-late war fighters in my version they'll absolutely ravage your forces.
*When composing your naval task forces, take full advantage of the huge hangar size of the carriers and make extensive use of the AD cruisers. Battleships are also far more potent in my version.
*I corrected the range of all major aircraft, including transports. This has resulted in far less threat from the AI dropping leg infantry on airfields deep in your rear. Long ranged concentrated strategic bombing campaigns on enemy capitols are now entirely do-able.
*Tactical bombers are really un-neccesary for anything but ASW (anti sub) and anti mine operations in my version. I've noticed the AI goes completely crazy buying subs sometimes, depending on how you're playing. And i mean -totally- crazy.
*The US, Germans (He177), Italians (P108), and UK have fantastic level bomber units. Even the Soviets will eventually get B-29s if you spend enough on R&D. Used en masse in a direct support tactical role level bombers are game changers. If you use Level bombers in direct support, attach multiple engineer units to your task forces to repair rail lines so your rail dependent heavy AD guns or zero movement heavy artillery units can keep up with your mechanized units.
*Once tall boy and grand slam become available, use them en masse. They are massively OP- but have very low ammo counts.
*I have included commando forces of multiple types for all major nations. They are very expensive, but very capable. Some have specialized roles. just keep them out of open terrain hexes where they are most vulnerable.
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Post by teophrastusbombastus on Apr 20, 2021 14:43:02 GMT
OK, The AI is not exactly broken... It is my modest opinion that the AI at this point is very high on the list of the PGX features that least needs improvement. Anyway, what is an AI "improvement"? In what direction is some change an "improvement"? Opinion: Depends to some point on the balance of all the game's elements. But also much on how each player sees the game, how he plays it, what he wants to take from the experience. Personal opinion: Much in the wake of what happened during my passage through the Enemy Territory (TPS online game) I see 5 star games as much as possible as potential simulators. In the case of ET I saw it as a small unit special operations simulator. With 5 star it is on a different unit scale and a more general purpose. So, the aspects that end up being the most interesting to me have to do with trying to achieve similarities with the historical model in terms of tactics and strategics. Then we have PGX with its 1000 turn ETO 6 year span scenario. So, as simple as I can put it, a good AI is one that keeps me establishing reserves, taking decisions about what to send when to where, and manoeuvering for the most possible of those 1000 turns. (Playing without home placement immediately kills that approach to the game, incidentally.) Duration is the reason why at some point I picked strongly with the immense amount of micro management demanded by the way road possession is dealt with in PGX and later stopped talking about it when I realized that having to clear each road hex actually slows game play. Inversely, I see with some apprehension features that may be very nice to think about but have potential to shorten game play, like a potent R/D that the player may take much more advantage from than the AI. Shifting back again, the massive artillery concentrations of v768 seem to have the potential to slow down the game. Summing up I'm talking about an AI that keeps the player playing... The extremes are to avoid at all costs. There's no fun in AI's that either melt away or melt the player away. Of course, the existence of certain options makes the thing much more difficult to achieve - for all. Some options make things so different that I think the ideal way to handle them would be different game sets.
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Post by valorius on Apr 20, 2021 15:29:33 GMT
It's all about how you set up the game options file.
if you want massive micro management and home hexes, you can have it.
If you dont want to clear every road hex, you dont have to. If you do, you can. To me it's well worth it for the sweet 60 movement rail transport. I use light, cheap recon units for clearing road networks. 11 motorcycle units can clear 11 hexes per turn.
That way, later on when i want to move 5 task forces out of yugoslavia to hit the low countries, it's quick and easy to do so- and i dont have to worry about exposing them to enemy uboats by putting them on transports.
I would rather gouge my eyes out with broken glass than move my reinforcements all the way from iceland to deep in Russia every time i want to buy some cheap jeep recon units just to clear out road networks. To each their own, as they say. So i play without home nation hex building.
Someone really into logistics might favor that game play over the actual fighting at the front.
There are so many options in the options file, i feel you can make PGX almost whatever you want it to be.
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Post by teophrastusbombastus on Apr 22, 2021 21:06:28 GMT
The AI is not exactly broken... I just have not written the AI under the optional rules you are using ! Obviously, this was never in question! What is still a question to me is why do we have a thread at the window of our forum for everyone out there to see with a misleading title expressing a false idea. Every time a post is written on this thread any passer by can read "The AI is completely broken"! We might as well post in the reception "Look people, you really should not lose any time here, just go look for a game with a good AI elsewhere!"
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Post by valorius on Apr 22, 2021 22:05:55 GMT
You could always just ask me to change the name of the thread you know. You are allowed to address me directly, you know.
At the time i posted it, not knowing that there was NO AI at all for placing hexes in a conquered city format, it certainly appeared to be completely broken.
I changed the title, I'd ask that in the future you just address me directly instead of talking past me like i'm not even here.
Also, does anyone else even post here besides the three of us?
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