|
Post by jeff on Feb 22, 2021 19:42:55 GMT
Been a while since I have posted anything on JP's old Forum. Sad to have seen it go. It was a great site.
|
|
|
Post by teophrastusbombastus on Feb 22, 2021 21:55:46 GMT
Been a while since I have posted anything on JP's old Forum. Sad to have seen it go. It was a great site. The old PGX topic still exists in .doc format. And the much smaller side topics on particular issues. Edit: the 8 old PGX topics plus one of the LGeneral Deluxe topics and The Panzer Division topic are now available for consultation on a read only category named JP's Archive Some of the old JP's spirit and some of the people can be found here: forum.open-general.com/The new Open General development venue, this time run directly by its creator and some from among OG's most dedicated fans. Includes 3 smaller sections on other 5 star series or related games.
|
|
|
Post by teophrastusbombastus on Feb 28, 2021 16:15:13 GMT
2/27/2021 New version uploaded today. v767. Mostly R/D stuff. Had to re-write a bunch of the code. I have played it about a dozen hours, or so. No bugs found yet. Jeff's Home PageI am kind of rusty on posting. I think this site is a tad different than the old JP's. Then again, I guess I am just rusty too. I had to move my web page to UT's new server. We have a different way of uploading files too. WinSCP. This place is different. Hopefully will get to see the same old friends here again though. One of the differences is that there is a "news feed" bar - between header and categories / boards. Admin has set it with 3 lines that keep on cycling. 1. a welcome 2. announcement of version available for download (already updated to v767) 3. pointer to look for link in the forum Any of those lines may be deleted, altered or more lines may be added (probably there is a limit). They can "flip" instead of "cycle). I had seen a Proboards before but that was two decades ago, so yes, I do feel a bit rheumatic. Not about posting though... of that I've been doing some at OG's. On the subject of postage notifications by e-mail I believe it is tuned via member profile. The structure and names of the already existing categories and boards may be altered. As various accessibility parameters. Currently its set for non members being able to enter and read the two "Panzer General X" categories but not write on them. PGX Headquarters is meant for matters directly related with the game - PGX Support Services for the indirectly related. Eventually also for things that seem to have little to do. Unless a third category is felt be needed for that. Boards can have sub-boards and that is currently being used at Section H. It allows a more detailed organization / classification of issues. Its also potentially confusing for those not used to it and liable to create situations when we don't know very well where we should fit something. Specially if there aren't pre defined criteria. One idea that has already crossed the Admin's head is a "Reception Lobby". With a locked thread containing a sort of "What is PGX" thing and maybe another one write-open to all. Just in case anyone remembers asking something else, or just wants to say hello. Uploading files is possible - there is the "Add Attachment" button top right when writing posts. However, the account is for free service and there are download limits that, for practical reasons render the feature nearly useless in PGX context. The 200Mb total limit is already a meager overall amount, but what really defeats the idea is the 1Mb per attachment maximum. The PGX package is over 13Mb and even the idea of splitting it to individual files is defeated by the fact that a few files are over 1Mb. Of course, there's a button somewhere to purchase more download storage - hopefully bigger file allowance too - and/or go for Proboards Pro, the paid version. Probably fruit of the current world crisis Admin has received a board message with a discount subscription offer. (And another one in search of donations.) So, uploading is set for staff only - I think count is on 1Mb from the screenshot used as background. Some space was also taken by the image used in the header but that goes on the "themes" count with a separate limit of 50Mb. Still, hosting tiny files, or a screenshot gallery, is possible for free. Speaking of "staff", if you feel the will and have the time to spend, just state it. Personally, I think you should be, at the very least, Moderator in the Main Topic. There's "Admin", "Global Moderator" and (Board) "Moderator". If there's any difference between them, besides scope, is something I still don't know. As I see it, there are four people who should be "Admin", in case they want to. Which brings us to the "same old friends". Those two who seem to have maintained some form of contact, K and X, I´ve e-mailed. In the case of X I also dropped a PM at OG's. I think I have the address of one or two more who participated back at JP's. Even with less faith of the message coming through I should e-mail those too.
|
|
|
Post by teophrastusbombastus on Mar 1, 2021 20:49:17 GMT
After a spell of PGX, the forum, I took the pretext of v767's (or is it B-767's) arrival to switch back to PGX, the game.
Current turn is 31; playing as Axis (Germany + Netherlands) versus Allies (Poland, UK and France + USA) Fair chances of spreading with ally Romania under Soviet attack. Italy and Finland also allies. Game options combo chosen less player friendly than the go with v764. Limited equipment share instead of full. No incremental resupply / replacement. Germany has advanced beyond Metz, after a very easy passage at a Strasbourg with a heavy fighter cover but almost deserted of land units. In Poland the advance is more or less halfway, with Warsaw already captured. The only German unit was lost in Poland; an artillery. 61 enemy units were destroyed. But things will change when the Americans arrive... (Or if the Soviet get too close to Ploiesti...)
Tipically, turn 31 is not the time for me to, at least playing Axis / Germany, invest in R/D. But, after seeing the option a few turns in luminous letters there was one occasion I saw it grayed out. It was like if it was the One Ring, I had to click the thing... And that's how I invested first time with the new R/D system. I have 1 investment made in German Infantry. Will they get additional entrenchment (better at hiding), more soft attack (what's that anyway? pillow fighting?) or just helmets fitted with horns (lemon curry?)? Don't lose the next chapters...
|
|
|
Post by valorius on Mar 2, 2021 5:08:59 GMT
Was thrilled to see a new update to PGX, ive been playing for probably a decade now.
I do seem to have a MASSIVE memory leak in this latest version though. Anyone else getting that?
Also: is there anyway to disable 5 point units? My veteran units just absolutely steamroll them like they're not even there. They're basically just free XP cannon fodder.
I love the new R&D feature, but the boost you get to your prestige/production becomes absolutely enormous after a while, and could use to be scaled back.
Also ammo production seems to be far, far higher than it should be. Playing as the US after about round 10 you could turn off all ammo production and still never run out even after winning the whole war single handedly.
Thanks for the new update!
|
|
|
Post by teophrastusbombastus on Mar 2, 2021 10:53:38 GMT
Was thrilled to see a new update to PGX, ive been playing for probably a decade now. I do seem to have a MASSIVE memory leak in this latest version though. Anyone else getting that? Also: is there anyway to disable 5 point units? My veteran units just absolutely steamroll them like they're not even there. They're basically just free XP cannon fodder. I love the new R&D feature, but the boost you get to your prestige/production becomes absolutely enormous after a while, and could use to be scaled back. Also ammo production seems to be far, far higher than it should be. Playing as the US after about round 10 you could turn off all ammo production and still never run out even after winning the whole war single handedly. Thanks for the new update! Welcome! I remember the nickname from JP's and I believe also from the new OG's. As can be checked at the JP's Archive category, PGX started in 2008, so, its quite probable you're near a decade of playing the thing. About the operative questions: 5 pointers - I can say that, at the moment, the player only has the option between purchasing them or not. (I episodically purchase half-engineer units to obtain road/rail for half the price but only when facing severe production shortage) I'm sure they can be made another optional feature altogether. The but here is that 5 pointers have become a relatively important AI tool. As I read it, particularly in the case of fighters, the 5 pointers play a key tactical role. An additional question may be, if we're talking player veteran units, how much better a fresh AI 10 pointer will resist them? Given the fact that units fire only once a turn, 5 pointers may be the most (cost) effective way the AI has to compel the player to either commit more units on the objective or accept some delay in the taking. R/D - JC revamped this these last days. There are now two R/D options and the "F2" game options board has it set for the most recent by default. What I don't know is if the production bonus still happens. What I do know is that, instead of anticipating the availability dates for all the countries' purchase board, in the newest option you invest on a unit class basis. Hopefully, you'll eventually get "enhanced" units for that class, that is, carrying a bonus in (at least) one of the stats, but it may not work or even backfire onto "reduced capability" units. At least that's what was mentioned through e-mail contact prior to v767 release. He may have not implemented it exactly like I understood then. For more on these and for the other two points, lets wait for JC...
|
|
|
Post by jeff on Mar 2, 2021 14:15:36 GMT
Valorius ! Welcome back. 'Memory Leak' was the key word I latched onto. I will check into that. (I had not noticed it yet though.) 5 Point units... When you said '5 point' units I thought you meant '5 star', and was completely confused how you blasted them away so easy. '5 point' Battalion-sized made a lot more sense. The AI got quite a lot of re-write lately. Some versions go with 'cheap' units for max number. You might randomly get a large number of countries using the same cheap AI. It is supposed to randomly change the AI per country. There are also some triggers to change the AI...like when it notices it is losing a lot of home nation cities. Also, the Air War going badly may trigger it's buying '5 point' air units. I think most of these problems relate to basically how bad the AI is compared to a real player. That is actually my favorite part of the code. Why I actually wrote PGX. I promise I will keep working on that. R/D I changed the R/D a lot this update. For every point of R/D investment, I raise the National Production by .01%. I think the older version increased it by 1 point. (Which for some countries might be greater than 1%. A bit of the trouble came from how to use cities to define production. Greece, and Hungary get 20 points a turn, but have a different number of cities. Each city hex has a value like .05 or .016. (based on it's Turn production/number of cities for that country. That value is the one I multiply by .01 now. I probably need to sit down and look at that closer. (Actually I think there is a 50% chance the investment will increase the production. (For that one point invested.) In the last game I played (I tried Italy) I stayed neutral for about a year, and poured almost all my income back into R/D. (Development was what I was looking for, and I sure seem to have gotten my Money's worth.) Perhaps a bit too much. Ammo Production... I made that a percentage of production. Pretty much like fuel. I never ran out of ammo much until I started laying Mines with lots of subs. The Max Ammo, Max Fuel are kind of abstract weird holdovers from the old PG/AG games. Max Fuel actually bugs me a lot. It does not really indicate How much fuel that unit is carrying around with it, as much as how far it can go on it's fuel load. I was just reading up on how much fuel it actually takes to move Battleships, compared to Tanks, Trucks. Wow, Battleships get lousy fuel mileage. Ammo could be a game in itself. Factories should be set up to produce different types of ammo too. Small Arms, Naval Shells, Bombs, etc. On the Options page I have a box to change the fuel production Percent. I think that may also change the ammo percent. I'll check. Oh yeah, I forgot R/D now can change new unit stats. Each point invested ($100) per point. Is assigned to each class. (Which screen you hit the R/D button on.) Total those up, and rolls a D1000. If that number is less than you have invested in that class, then it randomly picks an attribute to increase. Randomly ? Why not ...I think research should contain a fair amount of randomness ? I knew this might get interesting. Sure enuff the Range value seemed too get knocked up crazy quick on my Fighter Units !?! The first hit you get on the range attribute will increase that classes range by 1. It will take 10 more to increase it to 2. Got some Bomb Load value increases on my Subs yesterday. Some increases on Fighter Close Defence too. I decided to ignore those. Zeroed them out, and considered it a loss on R/D. I could re-assign, but I think just losing it for now is best. Basically the whole new R/D resulted in my playing Italy. Italy does not have any late war fighters in the game. The TAC bomber basic equipment is limited to that horrible BA65 ! What is with that Max Fuel (Range factor) anyway. 36 ? I have already been looking that plane up in some of my books, and reading up on it via the internet. I am pretty sure the Fuel factor may have been a typo error from the old game. The roles of Fighter and Tac bomber are a bit crazy too. They could almost be merged, or changed per turn. Tac being the only air unit allowed to attack Subs ? Many anti sub aircraft in WWII were actually planes classed as level bombers in the game. B-24's, B-17's. I guess I am just so fond of the old game, I am hesitant to change many of it's old quirks so readily. Ha Ha. But, I'm getting there. Hmmm, I kind of just gave myself an idea. Changing a units class. Changing a Fighter to a TAC, or even Level Bomber. Theoretically the Strategic bombing campaign could have been carried out by bomb carrying P-47's ? Probably not a good idea. The Germans used Bf-109's to bomb England late in the war. More of nuisance, but it could be considered a strategic bombing campaign ? Hey, I'll go check the memory loss thing now.
|
|
|
Post by valorius on Mar 2, 2021 16:37:01 GMT
OK so some troubleshooting info/data/questions for you.
I have reached turn turn 71, apr 1940.
Playing as US, i defended iceland with infantry and air defense units to prevent invasion, and refrained from buying units, instead spending all my money on Fighter R&D, and buying just a few of them so i could upgrade them as new mk's came out. I did buy a small fleet so i could invade norway and denmark to start some trouble with and test the AI.
At this stage in the war im getting thousands of prestige points per turn as a result of the massive R&D, and my fighters (all types) have begun getting a run time error 13 'type mismatch' which crashes the game. this is for all fighter types, upgrade or new purches.
My fighters are up to mk25. Many of the upgrades that they get seem to not have any effect at all "fighter bomb upgrade" makes no difference, any range upgrade past +1 doesnt get applied, and many stats that dont have any effect on figthers, such as close attack, get upgraded. Up until mk 25 the fighters worked fine, and i could upgrade or buy new ones with no problems.
At this stage, I can access the P51D...and again it's only april 1940.
Upgrades are as follows:
P51D Mustang Mk25: (numbers in brackets are total upgrades vs upgrades that were actually applied) Spotting 4 (1) Range 1 (3) Init 7 (1) SA 2 Ha 5 (3) Air attack 20 (25) Naval attack 3 (3) GD 9 (1) Air defense 15 (1) Close defense 3 (3)
Fighter has also gotten +2 to fuel, and +2 to movement (movement is meaningless for your game since movement is essentially governed by total fuel capacity)
Game is still playable, but if i click on a fighter on purchase screen or try to update my fighters, i get the error code i listed above, and game crashes.
Hope this data helps you to troubleshoot the issue.
The biggest problem i have seen with the AI is that it does not mass it's forces, particularly it's fighter forces, instead spreading them all over the board garrisoning areas far from the action.
I have never found 5 point AI units to be anything but easy push overs. An option to prevent AI from buying them would be really useful.
Thanks again for keeping this game alive!
|
|
|
Post by valorius on Mar 2, 2021 16:41:56 GMT
I'm going to start an all new game with US, stay neutral, and just spend every point of prestige on fighter R&D until turn 50, and see where i end up in production date and total number of Mk upgrades.
This is a totally viable strategy for US since you start with no enemies. You could probably easily do this until the point where someone offers you an alliance or declares war on you, deep into the game. That would give the US an -enormous- tech advantage once the war is finally joined, with 1945 units in 1940 or 41.
Will post results soon, wont take long at all to just keep hitting end turn button. Bottom line is the R&D feature is REALLY cool with the upgrades, but i think it will prob. need to be scaled back some.
|
|
|
Post by jeff on Mar 2, 2021 17:19:22 GMT
I have already coded some corrections for various units. (Including fighters) To catch the random bad attribute choices. (CD on fighters example.) The type mis-match error. Hmmm...run time error 13. I need to look at that one. Oh yeah Range...notice...That gets scaled. The first time it actually goes up one. Then it has to get 10 more to go to the next level. I actually need to set up a whole table to cross index the attribute increases with the different classes. Fighters with more than the basic range should not appear until uh, like 1956 ? Air to Air missles, Air to Ground, etc. I had toyed around with giving some air units a range of 1 to simulate torpedo attacks. The longer range helped avoid the new air defence rules ...which allowed capital ships AA values to help defend each other, and Carriers. In other words giving the ships better AA support I needed a better way to let planes attack them. Did not do a very GREAT job on the Bomb/Torpedo option. It is just a tiny label a level bomber can click when at an airbase. I gotta fix that, cause I was flying around with torpedos the other day, and could not bomb ground units. Took me a while to figure out I had clicked torpedoes on him earlier. Probably the best thing is just give Level bombers, or bombers that could carry torpedoes a range of 1 against ships. I got into the mission selection craze a few years back, and stuck low, medium, high, night, etc. into types of bomber missions. I was going to break each altitude range up into 10,000 foot levels. Even give fighters different values at those different alt. levels. Range (movement range that is) would be effected by altitude level climbed, and bomb load. A lot of this cheap is because I wanted to show the P-47 shine at high altitude. Yes, I am smack dab in the middle of the R/D stuff right now. I should have a better version ready to upload soon. Speaking of new uploads. Ha, that is more messy than the old days. I am working from home, so I have to RDP to my machine at work. Which is where I upload the files. So, I have to transfer the new program from my working machine with Windows 7 to my laptop with windows 10. Then Transfer it to my machine (Win 10) to upload. Whew...pain in the bottom. I need to get WinSCP on my laptop to save a step, or two.
|
|
|
Post by valorius on Mar 2, 2021 18:06:41 GMT
EUROPE 1939, US:
Progression, by blocks of 10 rounds. All prestige not spent originally garrisoning iceland (HQ infantry in ports and 40mm AD in all other city/oil hexes) spent solely on fighter R&D. All subsequent prestige will be continuously spent on Fighter R&D (This is with the same version I was playing the first time)
TURN10:
Calender date: 9-28-1939 Technology date June 1940 Hard attack +1 Turn starting prestige: 500
TURN12:
Air attack +1
TURN13:
Fighter Tech move rate +1 (Pretty much a useless upgrade)
TURN 16:
Fighter attack range +1 (any upgrades to this stat after +1 have no effect)
TURN 20:
Start prestige: 647 fuel: 30929 ammo: 4960 Technology date: Jan 1941 Fighter investment: 152
TURN 22:
Fighter Air defense +1
TURN 23:
Fighter price reduction - $12
RUN TIME ERROR TYPE 6, Game Crashes *Interesting note, if game crashes after your turn ends, when you reload the upgrade is lost* So price reduction upgrade no longer present
Instead the game gave me:
Fighter Air defense +1
TURN25:
Fighter Initiative +1
At this point my Warhawks will absolutely dominate the skies.
Warhawk Mk6:
+1 hard attack +1 air attack +1 air defense +1 initiative +1 attack range +1 movement
Game calender is 11-16-1939 Tech calender is June 1941
For some reason, France declared war on the Netherlands for the 2nd game in a row (no AI other powers declared war on anyone).
At this point Iceland has not been approached by any enemy unit, no country has declared war, and US is already poised to absolutely dominate the skies.
TURN 26 Starting resources:
Fighter Investment: 190 Prestige: 689 Fuel: 41079 Ammunition: 6879
*On hand ammunition stock is now probably sufficient to fight the war to total victory without any further production*
Hopefully this data helps you to fine tune the R&D and ammunition production feature.
I'll start building up forces now, and give updates as to when I begin offensive operations (I greatly increased the speed of naval units to reflect the reality of just how far naval units actually move in 3 days, which equals 1 turn in PGX)
Ran the game to level 40, spending all prestige from Turn 26 to 40 on Recon units. (105 total R&D) and got zero upgrades on recon units at all.
*Note at turn 45 I got +1 to "fighter bomb damage", which does not appear to make any difference to the attack stats of any air units of any type. *Started upgrading tac bombers later on and got +1 bomb optics but it doesnt appear to affect any stat on tac bomber statistic
Stats at level 40:
Game date: 12-28-1939 Tech date: June 1942 Prestige per turn at level 40 approx. 1000 Total fuel: 67376 Total ammunition: 12677
Fuel at this point should be sufficient for unrestricted operations until the end of the war. Ammunition is obviously far beyond what would be required, and by the end of the war it will be in the hundreds of thousands.
*An option to sell excess unused fuel or ammo on the open market would be a fantastic option.
Will start building fleet and airforce now, to commence offensive operations at about turn 50.
PS: I seem to have fixed the memory leak problem by reinstalling VB60 runtime files.
I have been using 1 range torpedo bombers for a long time, and agree they work excellent. The torpedo/bomb option is also very useful, i have been using that for years to good effect. Also LOVE the high/med/low/night bombing options for level bombers, please dont take that out!
I really like the +1 range feature for the fighters, because it simulates rocket armed ground attack fighters very well.
|
|
|
Post by teophrastusbombastus on Mar 2, 2021 20:13:33 GMT
One thing is certain, taking from testimonies over the years, first and foremost from the game's creator. Its consistently easier / faster to beat the AI playing Allies. Having said that, the most balanced match I ever had I played the USSR and it was the only time I hit the 1000 turn count. However there are two things to consider there: The USSR gets relatively little production out of its immense territory - inversely to the USA. So, they were 1000 turns of razor's edge production management. Additionally, I made sure never to enter any of the blocks. Defeated Axis first from the East while it was also attacked from the West by the Allies and then went on fighting the Allies.
But even playing Axis, usually, if I manage to survive the first most difficult stages - I've ditched two or three matches over the years for being bombed out of the map by the States - there comes eventually a time when it gets a steamroller, to use Valorius' expression.
That raises the question about if PGX would benefit from some sort of device to the purpose of keep scaling up the AI's capability throughout the match. In the original SSI games that came in the form of (some AI) later units starting with some experience and over strength. Apparently "unfair" to the player who sees his new units start with negative experience, (if using the training option,) we can always choose to overlook that for the sake of redressing balance a bit. And / or use the same idea to present the player a new form of spending the increasing reserves. Making available for purchase units with progressively higher levels of experience / over strength, for a stupendous price - ten fold? added for each point? Example: 10 pointer costs 50 11 pointer costs 500 12 pointer costs 1000 13 pointer costs 1500 14 pointer costs 2000 15 pointer costs 2500 Which would erase the "unfairness" question.
Or simply scale down bonuses like Valorius says.
I think I remember seeing an AI production bonus button in the Game Options. Mayhaps the most direct / simple way of "empowering" the AI. But the least glamorous.
Closer to home, that is one aspect to keep in mind while testing the new R/D, besides the actual mechanics, how it impacts balance.
|
|
|
Post by valorius on Mar 2, 2021 20:39:34 GMT
The key to playing USSR is to spend all the time until you get attacked (or are ready to attack) by not buying units, but rather spending all your money on R&D. That way once you enter the fray your per turn resource production is just insurmountable for any foe to deal with, with the exception of the US.
Sitting "doing nothing" for as long as possible for US/USSR and using those resources on R&D makes the game much, much easier in the long run.
I've played games as US where I took over the whole map, and kept USSR under player control until like turn 200, spending every dime of their prestige all along on R&D. Then, I would upgrade their inexpensive garrison units into the latest cutting edge units and mass them, taking advantage of the accrued experience of those units, and put the Soviets under full AI control.
In this fashion the Soviets can be a real nightmare to deal with even playing as the US.
A neat way to play as the US is to build a force, then sail down the straights of denmark without attacking anyone, all the way up to Leningrad, and attacking with a carrier fleet there. By the time you are done fighting the soviet union, and turn to attack the Germans and Allies moving from east to west, they have a lot of epxerienced units and it can put up a good fight.
One thing I always do before attacking a nation, whatever the nation, is "sell" all their excess ammo down to 500 on a 1:1 basis for prestige (on the F-12 menu). If you do that with the soviets at like turn 60 or 70, they might have 5k plus ammunition to "sell off" and put into either R&D or the purchase of units.
My biggest complaint with the AI is that it just doesn't mass it's forces right, especially it's airpower. It will spread air units in 1s or 2s all over the map instead of massing them at the axis of advance of their enemy, or in support of their main effort.
If that could be coded in, man it would make this game a heck of a lot more challenging.
I generally set AI productions to 100% of production value in fuel, and AI production bonus to 2x
All in all though, I love PGX.
A REALLY FUN thing to do is to select finland and fight the winter war against the soviets.
|
|
|
Post by valorius on Mar 2, 2021 21:08:55 GMT
OK I figured out what causes the run time error 13, "Type mismatch", it is the reduced cost fighters $12 R&D upgrade.
Every time ive gotten it, its taken the price of the fighter below the minimum researched price for that unit, which causes the game to crash when you try to buy or upgrade fighters.
|
|
|
Post by teophrastusbombastus on Mar 2, 2021 21:39:26 GMT
My biggest complaint with the AI is that it just doesn't mass it's forces right, especially it's airpower. It will spread air units in 1s or 2s all over the map instead of massing them at the axis of advance of their enemy, or in support of their main effort. From my experience playing (most times) Germany I get the impression we played with two entirely different PGXs. And I am probably right about that because I used v758 these last years, not v760, the last v available for download from the old years. As I wrote in previous post there were a few times I just gave up after being bombed out of land units by US level / tac combos. Forget the few 8.8 cm Flaks I could purchase trying to stop them. They just kept on coming until there was nothing left. Even so, this was a minority of matches, usually I passed a very difficult patch for the first game years but ended up recovering. How fast the US entered the war seemed to be a factor in that phenomenon. In any event, playing Germany with v758 called for massive AD purchase right from the very start and any unit left without AD support, including ADs themselves, was at very high risk of extinction. Somewhere in the archives there should be me saying that the air AI is too strong. And Xlightwavex agreeing to that. v760 must have been somewhat curtailed in that respect. But now we are at v767 and of that I have only 30 turns...
|
|